11/10/07 :: [SOA] I think Bill and I somehow agree [permalink]
I don't have too much time to continue this debate, I think there is hope that the RESTifarians will leave the (WS-*+REST) crowd alone.
If you read Assaf's comment on Bill's post:
The orchestration landscape is a mine field of different opinions. For some, it's all about top-down static endpoints using infrastructure to exchange control messages in the background. For others, well at least me, it's about message passing between processes, and REST fits nicely in that.
This is what the RESTifarians really care about "message passing", this is why they are so prompt to ignore application semantics. They tell you, all you need is send and receive messages (they don't really care about resources (see this post), a trick to avoid using a contract) and they are correct, you can do that efficiently with REST if you don't need security, reliability and transaction.
This is what Bill replied:
This is the same type of discussion I had with Nick alick. Just like Nick, the RESTifarians come up with arguments that only hold in LaLaLand and the rest of us have to deal with the consequences. We, in the trenches, have to justify our choices (more complex and more expensive) to our employers and co-workers because someone wants to rule the world"
Wow. Jean-Jacques has more or less described how I've felt about commercial WS-* technology for years, and better than I ever could. There's a great irony here that we shouldn't lose sight of :) I really would like to meet up some day.
I am glad you understand the pain. I don't see crazy pitches at work but we have to acknowledge that in any organization (IT or not) there are people that are ready to shoot things they don't like or they are afraid of. The more outrageous the comment the more it circulatesand ultimately muddy the waters for every one. Whether it is Nick, Joe and Dave Linthicum on Enterprise SOA, whether it is Dave Chappell on SCA, Tim Bray on WS-* or some of the RESTifarians on REST. I respect all these people, this is why I am pointing out some language that I find excessive. Richard thought that I was trying to apply censorship to everyone. No this is not true. I am just reflecting on an architect part of a complex SOA initiative and receiving these posts via email and having to defend his/her choices in front of his boss and colleagues (I did receive Tim Bray's comment via email and had to explain why he said what he said).
I don't claim I hold the truth but I care to be truthful in what I say. It does not mean that I am immune to saying something incorrect, but if this is the case, I would be the first one to admit it. We have to acknowledge that this field is very complex and nobody wins in playing bowling with words.
I am ready to put this discussion behind I think all have been said. As I said I have enough argument to answer any question on REST vs WS-*. My position is clear, apply REST (presentation federation) where you can and WS-* where you cannot (process and information federation).
Bill, if you ever come to Seattle, let me know.